Weirdo Zone

Star Wars Episode III *SPOILERS*
Page 1 of 1

Author:  dark_glaive [ May 22nd, 2005, 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Star Wars Episode III *SPOILERS*

Well, I saw Episode III today. Overall, I was happy with the movie. Hayden Christenson didn't want me to punch him in face everytime he appeared, unlike episode II, and there weren't a lot of things I found complaint with. I thought the best part of the movie was when Obi Wan screamed at Anakin "You were the Chosen One!" as Anakin lay defeated.

Everytime I see Star Wars movies, the stupider the Jedi philosophy strikes me. In the scene where Anakin goes to Yoda for advice about his dream of Padme dying, Yoda gives him some utter bullshit about not becoming attached too much to someone, as that leads to jealousy which leads to the Dark Side. If the Jedi can't deal with real human emotion any better than that, it's a wonder someone like Anakin didn't go bad earlier and betray them earlier. It's annoying that in the Star Wars world, you either have to be a Jedi who feel no strong emotion, or you are a Dark Side person bent on evil. I don't like what the movies seems to be saying with that. It makes me want to insert some completely awesome Force user into the story who allows himself to feel emotion completely, yet isn't bent on dominating the galaxy.

Author:  kingclancy10 [ May 23rd, 2005, 3:40 am ]
Post subject: 

Ooh, I saw it too, my favourite line was "It's treason, then" by palpatine.

Personally I wanted to stab Hayden Christensen in the face with a broken bottle a few times, but he made me hate anakin, and not because of the horrible acting.

I sort of agree with you about the Jedi thing, but it's not as though EVERYONE who uses their emotions is evil. It is the Jedi's sacrifice to boycott their emotions, after all, a jedi's life is sacrifice. But what Yoda says does make sense, although he is kind of elaborating. Funny how the Emporer is the only one who has ever pointed out that yoda is green.

Author:  Madrin [ May 24th, 2005, 5:13 pm ]
Post subject: 

I got to see it yesterday. In the end, I wasn't impressed because it was what I expected. There were several moments in the movie, that just didn't make sense to me.... Like in the beginning...why couldn't Obi just Force Push the droids off his ship?

In the end, in retrospect, I did like the movie. More for the stuff in the background. The HUGE battle at the beginning and the only shot we have ever gotten of Alderan.

From the armchair directors position, I would have liked to see the movie more from Anakin's perspective, so the line of good an evil wouldn't have been as clear. It doesn't make sense to me, to have someone standing there saying, "I will use the most evil thing ever thought up to have peace through the galaxy and save my loved one." Having that line scewed a bit, like Palpatine NOT refering to it as, "The Dark Side" or a line like, "THEY call it the DARK side, but there really is no 'sides' to the force, the force just is."

But oh well. Its a good movie, I'd suggest it to anyone, just be sure you go in prepared for a depressing time, unless you run home and pop in Ep. 4, which wil make it ALL better.

Author:  dark_glaive [ May 25th, 2005, 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

I thought we had Anakin's perspective on the matter. His top priority was to save Padme, which explains why he wanted to learn the Dark Side. And considering how the Jedi Council was asking him to spy for them, I think that explains why he sided with Palaptine on a political level independent of his usage of the Dark Side of The Force.

Once he saved Palapatine from Mace Windu, he had pretty much passed the point of no return, and he became truly evil instead of just misguided and misinformed when he murdered the Jedi children. There could've definetly been some more explanation as to why he would suddenly have the capacity to murder children. Maybe his wife's prophecized death during child birth had embittered him towards children ;) ?

Author:  Madrin [ May 25th, 2005, 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 

I feel we saw his perspective, but we never had it. I it was the only thing we saw. I never once questioned the Jedi, or their purpose. I would have enjoyed it alot better by seeing through Anakin's eyes, questioning the things I was seeing, instead of looking on in disgust as he goes from "Gosh that feld bad killing that guy," to slaughtering children. I just saw him questioning things that the audience clearly sees as 'right and wrong'.

Example, as Mace is standing over Palpatine, sure his, "This guy is too dangerous to let live," seemed...out of the ordinary for a Jedi, I at no time thought he was being 'bad'. And it didn't seem like Anakin did either.

In the end, I'm just being dumb, I really don't see an easy way of going about that in the movie, but Anakin was already a really weak character (in a literary standponit), and it seemed like his whole thing was, "Well I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't." But then...I never could wrap myself around how all those ppl followed Hitler into what they did with the Jews.... And nothing has really ever made me understand that. Guess I value human life too much, which sucks, considering I'm such a stout supporter of "Culling the Herd"....

But understanding the actions of someone who is bad is always quite interesting. George RR Martin's The Song of Ice and Fire series is amazing because you get to see into the minds of the 'bad guys' and see the shades of grey of all people. But then...Star Wars was always about Black and White, huh? Lucas made the best movie I think he could have with what he had. I think EVERY Star Wars movie should start out with a space battle like the one that started the movie, was truly impressive.

Author:  dark_glaive [ May 25th, 2005, 9:39 pm ]
Post subject: 

I guess I see your point considering how I've complained about every Jedi who uses the Dark Side always ends up completely or mostly evil. That is very boring.

After the 3rd book of A Song of Ice and Fire, I actually liked Jaime Lannister. So yeah.

Author:  Madrin [ May 25th, 2005, 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yeah, Jaimie turned out to be really cool from his own perspective. I really liked Theon Greyjoy, even though he was a COMPLETE f-up, even as he was burning down his old home. I'm looking forward to getting inside of Cersie's head, that should be...interesting.

But yeah, the whole Jedi thing could use the grey area, but I can see where Lucas is coming from. Its nice to have stark contrasts, but I think RotS really suffered from not having a grey area. Still like it though, hehe, just have to watch ANH right after it or else I get depressed. Was lucky to see it with who I saw it with, or I'd've been really down after it, hehe.

Was nice to see a journey down the Dark Side none-the-less. Now...if they'd only make a TV series out of Rogue Squadron, haha. Really a shame noone in the businness would have the balls to try that one.... Be awesome to see if someone would entice Denis Lawson out of his British Soap Opera gig.... Oh well, wishful thinking.... At least we got to see one of the whiniest characters in the SW universe burning....

Author:  Aivar [ June 1st, 2005, 12:19 pm ]
Post subject: 

well, we saw Anakin's viewpoint, that's for sure. The jedis' attitude towards him pushing him away is very transparent from the start. Not just them asking to spy on Palpatine. BUT, after that spot, where he stops Windu... well, he changes, VERY fast. Way too fast. He pledges himself to the Dark Side. Kills children. And he didn't seem to be able to reason on that volcano planet either. It's like he was someone else. It's like Obi was right... Anakin did die, betrayed by Darth Vader.

It's not like Jedi follow their own code. They just preach it. How many times has Obi-Wan held back Anakin from being a hot-headed fool? And then look at him, jumping down from a good hiding spot in the middle of Grievous and his army. That's worse than anything Anakin has done.
And, I've hated Mace from the start. I can't even remember what first bidded me to dislike him, but he has done nothing to soothe my resentment. I was VERY happy during the scene he got killed. He's one of the most adventurous jedi of them all, not to mention, far too sure he's always right. Ego... even Sidious wasn't this uptight.

Palpatine talking about this Sith myth of a guy being able to stop death, as well as saying how you can't concentrate on a small part of something and hope to understand it... well, I prefer the dark side, now. It seems, as though any and all caring is there. I don't care what words the Jedi use, there's not so much compassion there. The jedi by code live passive lives, they're as good as dead already. 'Cept for that they don't really follow their own code.

Author:  Madrin [ June 1st, 2005, 5:59 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hehe, good points all the way around. I guess, in my armchair director's viewpoint, that I'm more or less saying that we got too much of other people's viewpoints. And I wish the 'Dark Side' argument would have been, "Its not that the power is essentially evil, its how you use it." where it came off to me as, "Sure, its evil, but so are the Jedi." It made me think of little kids going, "I know you are, but what am I?" But yeah, in the end, it was all too fast. Maybe...if he showed more emotion to things, or gotten into more emotional conversations. He killed some Tuskans, he cried, then he's okay.... More passion, other than that, "I should be better," crap. His lashing out always came as a surprise.... I was actually shocked he yelled at Mace for not making him a master, sure he's arrogant, but he actually expected to be made a master?

The stuff about Mace is a good thought. I think the Lucas put him in there so we actually wouldn't like the Jedi. He was the leader of the Jedi council, even above Yoda, and held himself in that manor. What he thought was right, was right, end of story. He practically thought of himself as God. Everyone boasted of his lightsaber skills, when there shouldn't have been any boasting of any 'skills' within a monk-like society.

You're very true about the Jedi not following their code. Argument against would be that we never really got into any other Jedi, except for Yoda, Quigon, and Obiwan. Yoda appeared to follow it, I look at his walking into confront Sidious as a, "I need to know for sure if he's a Sith." Quigon was labeled as a very unorthodox Jedi, and he trained Obiwan, so it kinda hard to get a good cross section. And in Obiwan's defense, I know he jumped down there knowing he was about to have a fight on his hands, he did try to talk his way out of it for a bit....

As far as the dark and light side, I feel that's been the drawback of the whole Star Wars thing, the line between good and evil. You should have access to all availbable power, and quote, "With great power...blah." Its like saying, "If someone breaks into my home, and threatens to kill me, I can shoot him with this itty bitty gun and that's okay, but I can't use the shotgun which is knowingly stop him from getting any closer, because its 'evil'."

The only time I've enjoyed the principle of Light vs. Dark is in I, Jedi by Stackpole, where you get to see Luke questioning how some of the powers 'feel' to use. He thought the 'mind trick' felt wrong, but he had to use it to get by, so does that make him evil?

Jedi vs. Sith, in the end, that has to be more about religion as it applies. But we never really got any of the Sith religion, unless you popped open some comic books that dated to a time 3000 years before the movies.... Jedi were a Monk society that believe in hugging trees that became the government's police force. But no Monk societies last, and there will ALWAYS be corrupt police.

And now that I say that, I had a realization. The prophesy with Anakin said, "balance" the force. Obi thought it was to destroy the Sith, and I've always been bothered by that. If you read it right...the prophesy might be taken as destroy the Sith AND the Jedi, to start over knew, with none of the old ways surviving, exactly what happened....

Author:  Aivar [ June 3rd, 2005, 12:58 pm ]
Post subject: 

hmm... I may agree about Qui-Gon and Yoda, but I doubt there's any good excuse for Obi.

looking at Force powers in the original triology, I'd say, they seem to portray "power" quite well.

Also a thought about the OT... Yoda first tested Luke, by annoying him like hell. Luke failed, since he didn't keep calm. But there were VERY few jedi in the Old Republic, who would have actually passed that test.

Author:  dark_glaive [ June 5th, 2005, 2:16 am ]
Post subject: 

Yeah, I myself am wondering was Luke the balancer and Qui-gon just called it wrong, or was Anakin actually balancing the Force. It displays the arrogance of the Jedi in that some of them assumed Anakin would destroy the Sith, thus leavining only Jedi, thus balancing the Force. They must've believed they were inherently balanced.

Author:  Madrin [ June 5th, 2005, 9:24 am ]
Post subject: 

Hehe, my biggest question now about the OT, is Yoda's, "No, there is another." line to OB1. I always argued that he was talking about Leia, and OB1 didn't know about them being twins. But now that's kinda in question. Unless...OB1 had forgotten, considering it had been several years and the fact that he was dead..., or he didn't recognize it was Leia they were going to rescue on the Death Star, or maybe he was being 'too dependant' on Luke.

And on the balance issue, I was sure, from the mention of the prophesy in Ep1 that Anakin was truly the 'balancer of the force'. OB thought that = destroy the Sith, which in my mind, now, was wrong. I now truly believe that balance = destroy the Sith AND the Jedi. Luke's Jedi, in the later books, are seriously balanced. There is no teaching of the Jedi as a monk society, sure, Luke tries to do that, but he had no knowledge of the 'real' Jedi teachings, all he had was guess work, brought out by reminants he could find. He obviously has no knowledge of it, as he married Mara Jade. And, from what I've seen, his 'Jedi' stradle the line between good and evil in a very even way....

Author:  Aivar [ June 7th, 2005, 7:09 am ]
Post subject: 

yap, defenitely agree to that. Not to mention, look how old Luke was when he started his training. The old society raised people to be Jedi, they they had to be taught and guided from the start. Even Anakin was considered too old. I guess they really were too one-sided back then.

So, Luke saw the Force was within him, no matter if he wasn't born and raised a typical jedi; he trained and became a good Force user, but his teacher was mainly the Force itself, so to say. Yoda and Obi could only help him a little. In a way, he wasn't as... tainted. If that's a good word.

And Anakin, as Vader, still helped balance the Force, I guess. Though it wasn't really a pretty sight.

But as far as the new jedi order being balanced - okay, yeah, but I still don't really see Luke using force lightning. Can he do that? I'm not that familiar with what happened later, maybe he eventually could do that.

Mace Windu might have been added with the purpose of making the Jedi look arrogant, but... I'm not sure that worked. Most people love him, for being the adventurer and for making the rules himself. "He doesn't break any rules, he makes them."
Also, Mace's lightsaber is purple. That's between red and blue, like between dark and light side. It might be a coincidence, maybe those literature classes make me look for hidden symbols and connections everywhere... but maybe that's why it was made purple. To show he wasn't really a good jedi anymore, that they were corrupt.

Author:  HorusRe [ June 29th, 2005, 7:58 am ]
Post subject: 

I'll start slow, as otherwise I'll rant my bloody fool head off...

Buzz droids? Gay beyond measure. A missle that is forced to overshoot to deploy a gaggle of fundamentally useless droids? Comeon! Any missle that moves slow enough to make a decent deployment is going to be a snap to dodge. especially for a Jedi! Why not put a really decent warhead on the weapon and make it faster? Like real missles, nobody should EVER outrun a missle.

And I guess it's official. There IS air in the vacume of space. I love the fact that Star Wars starfighters ply space like they are in an atmosphere... thats fine. But WHAT THE HELL pushed that R2 zapped buzz droid off of Anakin's fighter? Looked like it got swept off by wind to me. Um... in space... un, yeah...


Author:  Aivar [ September 17th, 2005, 1:44 am ]
Post subject: 

Look at it this way: buzz droid. What does the name make you think of? :drunken: It only gives nice happy thoughts to me. :bday:

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group